welcome to real Christianity a weekly show designed to help Christians know their Bible defend their faith and truly understand what it means to follow Jesus the premise is simple the culture is getting louder the church is doing flash ear but few pastors are teaching on how to live a Biblical life my name is Dale Partridge along with my incredible wife Veronica join us as we start an important conversation about what it really means to be a Christian
 welcome to real Christianity today we are talking about is your pastor Vivica qualified for the church today is the pastor that you're the church that you're at t-ball if I would actually done a couple episodes on this topic or around the topic we did an episode titled the seven criteria of a Biblical Church you're welcome to listen to that we kind of briefly touched on the issue that we're going to talk about today and we also did one called is it okay for a pastor to be rich or wealthy and again just talked about the posture and character with Pastor if you want to listen to so you can always go to relearn Church. Org forward slash listen you can find all of our shows that there as well as the the show notes for those episodes including this one and just available for the YouTube video the audio download it's all available for you there one other thing I want to mention before I send it to other things when I met you before we dive into today's episode is this
 we are just finishing up finally as I've been talking about the ultimate marriage program I've been kind of taking you guys so long every episode we're done we're almost done with all the edits we're just at this point mastering the files getting everything beautiful make it to the flow of the experience is right we might even launch ultimate marriage by the time this episode airs so if we're good we're getting very close if you're interested in becoming a part of our six weeks married Mentor program with your small group or individual go to Ultimate nurse.com and if we hadn't watched it yet you could be sent to be notified if you just go to panera.com notify you could do that otherwise you can sign up if it's open by the time you get there so we'll find out we're just making sure that we get everything perfect before we launch diving into the conversation
 I think that many if not most Christians have been going to place themselves under a Shepherd or Pastor Without Really evaluating if they meet the Bible's criteria for Ministry or pastoring I think it's a pretty common thing and I think it's likely because we confuse spiritual giftedness with Spirit of qualification I want to say that again cuz I want you to catch that I think we we we really look at Spirit of giftedness instead of spiritual qualification and this is where I think a lot of people going to get tripped up or deceived in this and our hope for this episode is really that you have the tools the understanding in the resources to assess if you're being shepherded by someone who really meet the criteria by which criteria for what is Shepard really is
 yeah I'm sitting on that just recently my friend of ours told us a story about one of their friends who is who was currently an unemployed worship pastor and they were looking for a job at a church and he recently had an interview with the pastor and was offered the job but he wasn't sure if he should take job and so he called our friend and said so I got the worship leader position but I want your thoughts on a few things and he mentioned that the pastor is single
 childless and a woman and he was asking her friend if he thought it was okay for him to accept this position the fact that this is a worship leader this is someone that they leader in the church actually shepherding in a position of shepherding the fact of worship leaders ask this question is really bad enough so that that's its own issue but there's also really like a sad sincerity about this question I really think this poor guy who loves Jesus and has really no idea what the Bible says about what qualifies or disqualifies a person from being a pastor and unfortunately I think that this is kind of a universal ignorance of the church I think this is a pretty common lack of knowledge and
 I say this because this is really a part of our story to several years ago you know we we didn't know what to look for in and I'm going to ask Veronica at you know when you first became a Christian and you force her to go to church what was it that you were looking for in a pastor I did you even know what to look for in a pasture what was your experience there when I wanted to follow Christ and everything but I did said and thought I just kind of took their word for it you're on the pulpit then I would just like I never thought like oh there's qualifications I just assumed that they were and then as I developed in maturity and reading the word more and
 being around other stronger Believers I would hear you not like they went to someone so Seminary and if so then I was like okay they they must have to go to Seminary all right you're going to get a degree and then they were also incredibly gifted when I was saved I was I personally was saved due to a very gifted speaker and I felt super convicted of my son and that's when I gave my life to the Lord but yeah it was just maybe maybe I thought like I may have to be gifted and talented in that area to be able to teach common things that we think is qualifications are they have their m.div from the Seminary ride their masters of divinity their Seminary graduate their Bible College
 Seminary North Lake okay cool just thought it was like any other college that I know it was like one of them so you have this this IDF seminaries and then you have the idea of a gifted just because they can teach me that they should teach and then I think the most common thing is well you just believe because you're due to the church and you don't know much about the Bible and you assume that the people that are running the church know a lot about the Bible therefore more qualified person in this position to be guiding Us in leading us which now you're having all types of pastors of any type of background today pastors that are you homosexual Pastor is you're having issues we haven't things with women pastors you're having things with toddlers who are not married we haven't pastors that are single or a note no children
 cashiers with with no training pastors that are still walking and since there are so many different issues that are going on today in terms of pastoring that it's yeah it's an issue has a quote from an old legend that I really appreciate it says the man first build the institution within the institution begins to build the man and again I think it's what happened is it come to the church we we built this idea of the church and its tuition of a seminarian all the things and then all the sudden now we're learning a lot from the institution instead of from the Bible and so I think Christians are so beautifully illiterate that they actually go to church today just believe everything that their shirts does is somewhere in the scriptures and this is you know really all about deception and that the thing about deception and be misled is it when you're being deceived and you're being misled you don't know that you're being deceived or being misled and the only way that you can actually determine if you're living in a lie or
 meaning of false experience is by going back to the scriptures went back to the Bible and measuring your experience against What God Says your experience should be and again there shouldn't be any doubt in the church when we're measuring you know a pastor didn't scripture because the Bible is super clear and it lays it out exactly what the qualifications of a Biblical qualify Pastor are they do that now the Bible does that in 1st Timothy Chapter 3 and and and Titus 1 it's also about the scriptures our stuff in Acts or stuffing and Peter there's a variety of things even in the gospels and understanding what a shepherdess to do and we're going to look at those complications in a minute but there is definitely no reason to not know because they are so clear in the scriptures as you guys will see you shortly
 yeah something that I found really interesting is that the actual word Pastor is only mentioned one time in the entire Bible describes the position and the position which deal will break down is Shepherd but for the word Pastor being mentioned so few times and scripture it's amazing how many titles we have built upon just that name so there we got what the worship Pastor as we mentioned the youth pastor the children's Pastor the community Pastor the singles Pastor the marriage Pastor the parking lot Pastor unicredit just slap with any title with the word Pastor following and it's now a thing and it's yes almost become like a hired job instead of being a divinely appointed call important distinction that you're making here about next week totally done that we just adopted all these
 if you if you meet the the qualifications of being an employee person you can come and be this pastor the role that we have called Pastor the Bible actually called elder or overseer that's that's what we see in Scripture that we see that we're way more obvious than the word Pastor the word Pastor Elder and overseer Shepherd these words are are more frequently used basically the word because the word Pastor would have been just mean Shepherd is simply a description of the Elder does you cannot be a pastor without being an elder and I'm going to say that one more time cuz I want you to catch this okay because the word Pastor is simply a description of what the Elder does you cannot be a pastor without being an elder and you can't be an elder without being a pastor okay the idea of a pastor who is not an elder is not a bib
 call idea it's kind of like an impossible thing to happen Okay you can have a pastoral gifting that you're trying to mature into a pastoral office eventually well not being an elder needed it like say you're a young man and you gon and the skies are pastors hard he's he's he's trying to become meet the qualifications of becoming a pastor at some point during nurturing and growing that Pastor or gifting he's still not a pastor he said not in the pastor's office but if you're going to wear the title of Pastor and you're actually going to Shepherd a flock of God's people that you better meet the qualifications for Pastor Paul Sheppard for overseer that are found in the Bible and that's what we're going to talk about now so Ron is going to read first chapter Genesis one of the spots in Scripture that is very clear
 instructions description description of what a Elders this is a faithful saying if a man desires the position of an overseer he desires a good work and overseer then must be blameless the husband of one wife temperate sober-minded of good behavior hospitable able to teach not given to Wine not violent not greedy for money but gentle not quarrelsome not Covetous one who rules his own house well having his children in submission with all reverence for if a man does not know how to roll his own house how will he take care of the church. Not a novice less being puffed up with pride he fall into the same condemnation is the devil moreover moreover he must have a good testimony among those who are outside lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil
 a deal Partridge here we hope this podcast has been a blessing to your walk with God for those that don't know real Christianity is an audio ministry under our nonprofit relearn church.org I'm telling you this because we're listener-supported podcast it takes a small team a serious amount of equipment and several hours per week to keep the show going I share this because Veronica and I want to grow the reach of the show so that it might help even more Christians mature and their understanding of God's word so if you're a regular listener to this podcast would you consider supporting us in this ministry effort we're not asking for much maybe $10 or $20 or $25 per month I promise you that your support will help us continue to get God's truth out to strengthen the body of Christ and the further the gospel if you feel led to make a donation at Sibley go to relearn Church. Org forward slash donate again that's relearn Church. Org forward slash donate thank you so much for your consideration
yeah so these are God's qualifications in scripture for the leaders of his church and at one thing I want to talk about here is if this is true for the leaders of the church then it's definitely true for each and everyone of us and so it's really easy to isolate these qualifications or these character traits into their own kind of category as if I only those people need to be that way but God doesn't have double standards that's not that's not the case he doesn't say to the elders and you guys be super holy and righteous everybody else has to be holding right has no expectations for God's people from the top down in terms of maturity and you know sure for the church quality like these are things that everybody should desire and they are things that are required of the elders and and also the details which were not talking about today
 what a point that out of him as an important conversation to have is it these are just for them they're also for you these are characteristics for you as well so I want to read you guys these qualifications briefly we're going to just fly through them here and as we're doing this or 17 of them and I want you to evaluate your pastor against these biblical qualifications and if you need some praise God you're blessed church and that's a great thing we had a pastor who met these qualifications for several years we are now in a shepherd's roll meaning that we look at these qualifications regularly to make sure that we are staying Within These qualifications and so let's start with the first qualification of a to go. No not just as we look at them but are the people in our fellowship as well look at them we're not the ones making the call itself qualify we are congregation
 the one who evaluates just like we're asking you to do evaluate if we are in that office because they can see these things be true of our life number one qualification is the pastor is a man the overseer is a mail office and it's not it's not of a woman it's not a woman's office I didn't write it so you don't get mad at me but that is what the scriptures teach so I'm just going to leave it at that but it is a position for men second point is there blameless now I want to talk about that for a second blameless doesn't mean faultless doesn't mean that they haven't fallen it at that they don't have it make mistakes that they did they don't have error but the difference is if they don't have a reputation of evil or pattern of evil or a pattern of Habitual sin
 they're not known for those things they're they're above reproach. Because they are the example for the flock as I follow Christ husband of one wife the Elder is a one woman man and I know you might be thinking in terms of polygamy get out this could have this is definitely an issue the time how many wives does Chris have well he only has one and it's the church and so we are the model that and does this disqualify the man who has been divorced some believe so I don't have an opinion on that cuz if I would have specifically speak to that but it does say that you're the the husband of one wife and I think that's a really important distinction
 moving on to number for temperate means that you're not an angry person number five sober-minded it means that you're a you're a man who's centered on biblical truth I eat your firm your steady you're not easily swayed you really believe what you believe and you're not being obsessed with some of these kind of
 fluke theological ideas or you know I've heard all that that I always write references the Flat Earth folks in the church I'm like dude I don't care if it's flat Jesus is here he came he died he rose again he's hitting the father out of flat or round or Square I'm not going it doesn't matter and and so can I get a set of side with all these like weird things not sober minded when those kind of things happen just focus on the scriptures the facts to call good havior it's pretty self-explanatory number six number seven is hospitable
 I'm going to say that they prefer company like there they love people and they want to spend time with people and what's the definition of hospitality
 showing others they're worth value of the other Worth showing others they're worth about your your hospitable you like showing people their value I never ate is able to teach they have to get the teaching I would say to an extent because I'm tight as it talks about the elders task is to correct and exhort and rebuke those who contradicts the word of God so you got to be trained studied prepared and capable of exerting correcting and rebuking those who contradict the word of God that that extensive nasab of teaching is what I think is talking about
 nevermind not given to wine and I would say it does this mean that you can't drink at all I think it means you're definitely not a drunkard I think that's what the passages translated in some other versions too but I would say you're not drinking that often it's not something that you do regularly on your anniversary with your wife sure but I don't think that that is what it's talking about you're not given to Wine you're not Desiring for it not violent
 self-explanatory number 11 not greedy for money
 and so with the Instagram account preachers in sneakers which we talked about in that other episode where you have these pastors wearing $4,000 jackets and $2,000 pairs of shoes this should absolutely raise some red flags in your heart and and go whoa that doesn't line up right. Doesn't look like Jesus you know follow me as I follow Jesus in my $2,000 pair of shoes like that just doesn't sound right and so they're not serving the church for monetary gain or or being immodest with their wealth
 number 12 gentle this doesn't mean they're soft it means that they're their compassionate they're patient there caring number 13. Quarles
 I like a friend of mine just interpreted this I think it's a really helpful way he said they don't argue they do don't ever let discussions turn into arguments is Target is an argument is striving like in the flash like I'm going to win this thing and it's not about the Holy Spirit doing the work and so they're not arguing they're not quarrelsome Covetous silver 14th he's content with where the Lord has him you don't see someone that's constantly on the game
 you know and I know we can do nothing wrong with achieving and growing and moving forward but just as constant need to perform an end and looking at other people's things and wanting other people's lives so I'll leave it at that number 15
 rules his own household well and so I would say this is a household isn't just your wife and children I believe it's your property ever lose your finances is everything in order there so that you can be the example to your flock in all things not just in family but whatever the Lord has given you if it's a small apartment that thing is taken care of it's clean it's your you care for the things of the Lord has entrusted to you I would do it also extends to like are you wallowing in deep in debt you know have you been able to be trusted with God's money so that's another element it could be extent I could have extended that'll be on what the text says but that's my take I never 16 their children
 and our children are obedient and in submission to this elder I because if you can't even run your own house holding and have your own children into submission do you how can you run the house of God that's what it says in the passage and I think that this is interesting cuz it clarifies that these children may be old enough what is not child and then children and and I need to be old enough and what you can determine while. That's that child is in submission to their father and I say that happened somewhere between 40 and up you can start to see you really if a child isn't submission and I really see it at 10 12 13 14
 this isn't mean perfect children this means obedient children and so I want to cuz you know we got a lot going on and it's really easy to be critical of Pastor so obedient loving order children not perfect children
 and never 17 is not a novice then you shouldn't be new to the faith and walking in a leadership position you shouldn't be new to the Bible's Theology and walking in a leadership position you need to be able to understand again the word well enough that you can defend it that you can present it and understand the mechanics of the Gospel quite well and explain it to other people you could bring them along the journey so those are the 17 requirements and I want you to think does my pastor meet those qualifications that's it's really important and valid question
 yeah so after going through those 17 qualifications now let's just say you hear them and you say I think my pastor needs his qualifications great but another point that I did want to make it really shifted in my journey was recognizing the difference between a Biblical Pastor who feeds in Geismar text protect the church and the Evangelist to Simply teaches basic gospel messages each week in hopes to convert people to Christ for his flock and then point B is this evangelist literally mean that they are truly pastoring many churches today are led by evangelist tour who tend to be just more focused on the visitors
 then they are to the committed people in there for a visit or right and wrong with that an intrinsically wrong with that but I think it's really important point because I'm sure every passing me to be concerned with the gospel we need to be making sure that we present the gospel I would say you should be able to reserve the gospel in every sermon that you preach but again you know the Gathering of the church and the Evangelistic Outreach of the church are two separate Endeavors and we need to realize that and sadly I think the Evangelist has kind of taken the spotlight and that's why we have a pretty young in their journey in the church were living on milk because the lost it the people that are new to the faith they need milk their babies babies need milk to survive the problem is it an adult surviving on milk will die
 and that's why if you're there for 10 years but you're still every Sunday is an Evangelistic message over and over again you're not being fed and led by a Shepherd you're you're you're watching evangelism occur again in your understanding the elementary parts of the Gospel over and over and over again so just because you a qualified evangelist that makes it I'll just call the Station that's still not a pastor and in those are different Ministries pastoral Ministry even says that there's some Apostles and Prophets and teachers some pastors and some of Vangelis there two different roles in a few cents for that you hear about that so I want to just that important distinction to be made there so I'm going to close by asking the obvious question which is what do you do if you're at a church in your pastor doesn't meet
 these qualifications or that your church really is a Outreach for evangelism every week and it's not a gathering of the Saints to the edifying of the the the the Believers for the work of their Ministry what do you do then and I'm going to say that you have two options one if you're out of church you're close to leadership you I would say have a conversation and compared the scripture against what you see that's not lining up in their life I would do that gently in love cording to Matthew 18 and then if that's not an option for you I would say sit before the Lord and pray the Lord places you and another local church and in considered going on a journey to look for another gathering and again we have a great podcast on that title the seven criteria of a Biblical Church which you can use to evaluate really what should I be looking for when I'm looking for a bit
 Church
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 I think Christians underestimate the influence the culture can have on us I think without even noticing many of us have traded this incredible life that God wants for us for an empty counterfeit if you haven't realized the church has become comfortable with things we shouldn't be comfortable with weave normalize things in our work our marriage has our families in our finances that are not normal but the question I have for you is this what does the Bible say about what's normal what kind of life should Christians be chasing what if I told you that what's popular isn't Superior what if I told you that what seems smart isn't actually right what if I told you that the worldview of 6 is actually God's definition of failure
 the Bible says that the wisdom of this world is foolishness to God so what if we're doing it wrong what if the lives of those who followed Jesus look more like the culture than like cry what is the life we're so desperate to have isn't something to seek after but actually to be saved from I answer these questions in my latest book saved from success how God can free you from cultures Distortion of family work and the good life it's a short convicting bold book get your copy in hardback or audiobook at relearn church.org success again that's relearn Church. Org forward slash success
 thank you for joining us on this episode of real Christianity real Christianity is an audio Ministry of relearn church.org if you'd like more information on how to live out a Biblical life relearn Church. Sobriety of Articles podcast sermons and videos to support your journey real Christianity is 100% listener-supported Ministry and if you'd like to support our efforts simply click the donate a pat relearn church.org you can also connect with both Veronica and I on Instagram Facebook and Twitter for daily lessons and Bible teaching thank you for being with us today we hope to see you next Wednesday another episode of real Christianity