welcome to this episode of real Christianity my name is Dale Partridge reach week I offer 15 to 20-minute answers to tough the illogical and pastoral question this is 100% listener support audio Ministry of relearn. Org and for those who don't know our mission a tree learn.org is to educate and equip ordinary Christians to plant biblical confessional and missional house churches for more information just visit relearn. Org forward slash house look how many Christians I've noticed interpret their testimony like this I was at a certain place and I heard the gospel I accepted Jesus and now I'm a Christian but is that what really happened did you choose God or did he before the foundation of the world choose you or to be unpacking this important discussion today on this episode but before we begin I just wanted to make it to a quick
 announcements the first one is you've heard me talk about it before St Jostens that's St Justin's. Org this is our online and in-person one-year Seminary grade training program for men to plant biblical house churches and we seen so many people over the years who have gone into Ministry and planted a church or a house church and without training it can be incredibly catastrophic relationally so we really suggest that people get trained at we don't accept we would never let a doctor work on our bodies without training we would never let an attorney work on our law case without training it's interesting how much of the church will allow pastors to work on their hearts and souls with
 training and we know we're not saying that you need to have a degree but we think we think the pastor's need training and the reason is because Jesus he didn't just send his disciples out on day one know he had three years of training before they were sent on Mission and so we have developed a program for those that are interested in planting a Biblical House Church if you're intimidated by that or but you feel called still this is a great resource for you to check out don't just start we've had so many situations that we've heard of and walk through even personally that you got a man that could have been avoided had I been trained on how to handle that theologically relationally so it's just a really great program if you're interested or you know somebody that's interested in planting a Biblical House Church just go to St Justin's. Org and just go ahead and fill out the information so you can hit the little button that says seek more information
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 are are blessed by what we're doing here at relearn. Org we would love that you could just go to relearn. Org forward slash donate okay so a today's question is from Tyler in Laredo Texas and he says Pastor Dale
 for many years I have believed that I chose God but the more I read the Bible the more I'm seeing that he chose me I know at the route this is a conversation between predestination and free will but I would like to have a right understanding of my conversion can you help me with this hey Tyler thank you for your question and let me let me Begin by explaining why this question is actually so important when we first encountered Christ and we view that experience through our own eyes in other words we see one dimensionally we see it solely from the human perspective and not from God's perspective of a dad running up to his son and excitedly saying do you want go to the park today and a son screams yeah his son thinks that he just chose to go to the park but every parent knows that the dad already
 that decision for him before he asked the sun they were going to the park regardless right but the sun only sees
 you know this this interaction from his perspective and in relationship to our our conversion to Christ by God's grace we soon find out that God doesn't just leave us with our one-dimensional view but he actually shared with us his perspective on our conversion by way of the scriptures and after a person is saved and begins to read more and more of God's word they eventually bumped into certain passages and begin to see that their conversion wasn't as one-dimensional as they originally thought they say wait wait wait a second until I choose God or or choose me and it sounds like that's what occurred here Tyler in your life so it's a good question so I want to preface my explanation with three verses
 now there are a lot more passages with that we could discuss but we have limited time so I chose these three so I'm going to read them off to you back to back to back here a fusions 13 through 6 says blessed be the God and father of our Lord Jesus Christ who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the Heavenly places even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world that we should be holy and blameless before him in love he predestined us for adoption to himself as Sons through Jesus Christ according to the purpose of his will to the praise of his glorious Grace with which he has blessed us in the Beloved verse 1 John 6 John 6:44
 Jesus says no one can come to me unless the father who sent me draws him and I will raise him up on the last day and John 10:24 through 29 so the Jews gathered around Jesus and said to him how long will you keep us in suspense if you are the Christ tell us plainly Jesus answered them I told you and you do not believe the worst I do my father's name a witness about me but you do not believe because you are not among my sheep my sheep hear my voice and I know them and they follow me I give them eternal life and they will never perish and no one will snatch them out of my hand my father who has given them to me is greater than all and no one is able to snatch them out of my father's hand I and the father are one
 now most people imagine evangelism like this man is drowning in an ocean and is going to die a boat comes by with another man let's call him the Evangelist who's saying to the drowning man you're going to drown grab this life preserver and you're going to live in the man in the water agrees grabs the life preserver which is Christ or faith in Christ and the Evangelist pull them into the boat and metaphorically this is what our conversion looks like from are one dimensional perspective but let me explain what evangelism looks like from the Bible's perspective
 so first let's look at Romans 3:10 through 12 to tells us none is righteous no not one no one understands no one seeks forgot all have turned aside together they have become worthless no one does good not even one in Ephesians 2:1 through 3 ads of this by saying
 and you were dead in the trespasses and sins in which you were once and once you once walked following the course of this world following The Prince and the power of the air the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience
 okay so the first major point is that nobody seeks God nobody is interested in being saved spiritually dead in our trespasses and sins the word picture there is of like a man face down dead and his own vomit and feces okay that's that's how Dad we are spiritually were it says we're also following the course of this World Imagine a river of dead corpses floating down toward a waterfall that empties into a volcano that's that's what sin has done to mankind spiritually outside of Christ we have no spiritual life left in us no goodness left in us we don't seek God we don't do good things we are spiritually dead
 people do what we still do good things right well if you compare good things to what
 you're good things to what somebody else is doing sure might be better than someone else is doing it considered morally speaking but when you when you consider what you're doing in compared to a holy God a perfect and holy God it's like comparing a grain of rice to the Sun
 and so let me explain this another way the Bible doesn't teach that you and I were treading water in that ocean looking to be saved the Bible teaches that you and I were dead on the bottom of the ocean floor already and we were headed to hell and incapable of participating in our saving at all so if we're totally dead
 how did we get saved that's what we're here to talk about today so according to the Bible what happened was this in the same way that Jesus resurrected Lazarus without his permission by the way God spiritually resurrected you without your permission and this is what we call the born-again experience and just like you had no choice in your physical birth you had no choice in your spiritual birth God as he promised in the old Covenant to those who were included in the New Covenant that he would take out your Heart of Stone and put into you a new heart of Flesh or his law would be written upon it you can read that he Keel 3626 and this heart change at the heart of the symbol of life is Hart change is New Life it's the new creation that spoken of him and the scripture 2nd Corinthians
 5:17 says therefore if anyone is in Christ he is a new creation the old has passed away behold the new has come and like a baby cries out at their birth you cried out to God at your second birth and this is why Romans 815 says but you have received the spirit of adoption as Sons by whom we cry Abba Father Can you crying out Godfather okay now what it says you received the spirit imagine me having a football and putting it into your chest it's not that you received it like I'm saying yes I'm receiving it no it's like I gave God gave it to you or I gave you the football you received it
 you received the spirit of adoption is Sons but whom by whom we cry out all the father and you cry out because your new heart it was given to you in your spiritual Resurrection I had to immediately made you aware of your sin and genuine made you aware of your sin and genuine repentance and Saving Face begin to pour out of you basically you're aware for the first time ever is it you can't stand before God if he found righteous you must instead of Trust In Christ Alone to be your righteousness to earn that righteous verdict on the day of judgement and when this occurred with all happened very quickly and simultaneously and you know that's another theological discussion but at this point you're Justified and this is Gina when we think about it from a forensic level or a legal matter right you're justified in the court case of being found righteous
 for God and this is what Romans 8:30 says and Those whom he predestined he also called and Those whom he called he also Justified and Those whom he justified he also glorified just called the Golden Chain in theology circles when we hear the word called I think of think of Jesus and John 11 Saint Lazarus come out
 right now combine that statement of Jesus Calling
 Romans 10:17 that says so faith comes by hearing and hearing through the word of Christ so when preachers preach the word of Christ which is the gospel
 it's kind of like your mouth has a preacher becomes the word of Christ ride your sharing the gospel the word of Christ and his sheep like Lazarus come to him right in and they hear his voice is it says write this confirms again you know what I just read in John 10:27 I'll read it to you again it says my sheep hear my voice and I know them and they follow me they come to him and they follow him essentially what what I'm telling you here is this you did not exercise saving faith and genuine repentance that led you to being born again
 no it's backwards you were spiritually dead in capable of seeking God in fact it if if you can exercise saving faith and genuine repentance without first being born again why do you need to be born again right you just secured eternal life through faith right I just doesn't make sense logically explain it another way you can't exercise spiritual actions before being spiritually born okay and saving Faith Are Spiritual actions and they can't be carried out by spiritually dead people and so what this leads us to is this why we may have thought that we chose God you know in the same way that that child. That he chose to go to the park we didn't God chose you before the foundations of the world that's what it says in Ephesians and because he chose you
 he he predestined you you know he because he predestined you he called you in that gospel hearing moment and he called you to life and in that moment he gave you that Newhart like he promised with the ability to exercise saving faith in January pendants from that new source of life and through this Faith he justified You by Christ's righteousness and because you are his son or daughter he will keep you saved forever and if you for the song he will hold you fast it's a really beautiful song really beautiful lyrics but this is how Jesus in John 10:28 and say I give them eternal life and they will never perish and no one will snatch them out of my hand so think about that can you promised eternal life to somebody if you can lose your salvation
 I don't think so and he says right here Jesus says and they will never perish
 never powerful powerful promise right there so Tyler
 I did answer your question I would say is no you didn't choose Christ Christ chose you and this is the very definition of grace
 I'm is it you didn't choose it and you were saved anyways if if you chose it then it's it's not Grace it's synergistic decision-making that I saw a really good opportunity I chose it you do good business deal Christ you do some saving I'll do some obeying and we're going to do this thing and we're going to run the race to the end but that's not what happened Grace is the fact that you had no chance of saving yourself and God came and saved you and this is how we can say salvation is of the Lord that's what it says in the songs we we didn't participate in our savings and we do not participate in our keeping and it because we are not the Savior right it's Christ who does all the saving and he's the author and finisher of our faith is it doesn't Hebrews it's him who began that good work in us and we'll finish it in the day of Jesus Christ as it says in Philippians and said to him
 be the glory forever and ever amen you can say that to him be the glory everything your entire Journey with crises all give the glory to Christ
 now I know I'm about to close up right here but I do want to put a quick a stress carrier not everyone's salvation story might be this linear in terms of you can see this specifically our moments. Mine mine wasn't that linear but regardless of variation and timing of all these elements all these elements will occur according to scripture and they will occur in a certain order so don't worry if you're comparing your story to this and come in a confused a really good resource Seminole if you guys were to resources that you guys can actually find on the post page for this episode and you can just go to relearn. Org this is episode 108 titled did I choose God or did God choose me a really great book for you to read that it's a Biblical and scriptural breakdown of this gospel Doctrine is by r.c. Sproul and it's called a chosen by God
 when we looked it up there it's a blue book with there's two versions of it but the newer version is the blue book with a cross on the cover of it and then a video by John Piper. That's titled God chose you before you chose him and he get the short one or two minute message about that idea that was helpful for you guys if you guys are regular listener would you consider leaving a review for the show you do you need to talk to stars or so are you going to need a ride to thing you just need to tap the stars and that would be a blessing for us it really does help the exposure of the show and more people continue to hear about our ministry because the great reviews and they're so encouraging to us that's it for today my name is Dale Partridge and we will see you guys next week
 thank you for listening to this episode of real Christianity if your regular listener to this show would you prefer we consider making a donation to support our ministry efforts simply visit relearn. Org forward slash donate again that's relearn. Org forward slash donate and for those looking to explore the idea of joining or planting a church in your home you can download our free pdf ebook titled the basics of biblical House Church by visiting relearn. Org house lastly do you have a few logical question you would like answered on the show The Mayor question a tree learn.org for question thanks for joining us on this episode of real Christianity will see you next Wednesday